216 | Radical Vulnerability & Building Equity in Healthcare with Ivelyse Andino
Our guest on the pod this week is Ivelyse Andino. Ivelyse is an Afro-Latina health equity innovator born and raised in The Bronx. She is the founder and CEO of Radical Health and a Commissioner on the New York City Commission on Gender Equity.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
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Building Healthcare Equity Through Radical Vulnerability: Interview with Ivelyse Andino
SPEAKERS
Paul Zelizer, Ivelyse Andino
Paul Zelizer 00:01
Hi, this is Paul Zelizer, and welcome to another episode of The Awarepreneurs podcast. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things, conscious business, social impact, and awareness practices. Each episode, I do a deep dive interview with a thought leader in this intersection. Someone who has market tested experience, and is already transforming many lives. Before introduce our topic, and our guest today, I have one request. If you could go over to Apple podcasts or whatever app you listen to the show on, hit the subscribe button, do rating and review. It helps tremendously. Thank you so much for considering. Today, I'm thrilled to introduce you to Ivelyse Andino. And our topic today is Radical Vulnerability & Building Equity in Healthcare. Ivelyse is an afro Latina healthcare equity innovator born and raised in the Bronx. She's the founder and CEO of Radical Health, and a commissioner on the New York City Commission on gender equity. Ivelyse, welcome to the show.
Ivelyse Andino 00:50
I believe is an afro Latina health equity innovator born and raised in the Bronx. She's the founder and CEO of radical health, and a commissioner on the New York City Commission on gender equity. If at least Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here chatting with you today. We were talking before we hit record as global pandemic is seeing spikes up again, this is a very, very, very timely topic. And we're so grateful to have you here. So we're called aware of foreigners live at least and before we get into the incredible work you do and how you got into it, and what some of the strategies are in terms of working towards health equity. We are called to wear printers. And one of the ways we like to get to know somebody is to ask you about a wellness or an awareness practice that you personally use to resource yourself for this very important, but not always very easy work. Yeah, I think that this is such a great question and such a beautiful way to ground. And so I have two practices that I really like to embody. So one is a little bit more, I guess, not as tangible, but really finding joy and being really intentional with finding joy in my day to day. So whether it's like my first sip of coffee, or being really spontaneous with some girlfriends, there's something about the act of joy as an act of resistance. And that's one of the things that I really like to embody. And the other that is really just super concrete and very practical is I try to drink two cups of water room temperature water every morning. So before I have my coffee, or before I do anything, I just try to sit, hydrate and be intentional that like that first tip of the day is really how I start to care for my body in a more physical way.
Paul Zelizer 02:50
So your journey started in the realm, at least your career journey started in the realm of health tech, and now you are a healthcare equity activist. Talk to us a little bit what drew you into health tech? And what sparked that transition into “Wow, we have some serious equity issues in the healthcare world. And I want to do something about that.”
Ivelyse Andino 03:14
Yeah, so you know, I think for me, I often lead with a, you know, Afro Latina, I'm born and raised in the Bronx. And even my journey into health tech was one that I felt, you know, I lived through a lot of things personally, but didn't really have the words or the frame to explain, right, what I had lived through. And so my entry into health tech really was at a time where I had spent before that so much time in healthcare, and in pharma, but wanted to do something that was a little more innovative, a little more hands on the ground, really working with people. And so I got to work on a platform that allowed me to prescribe apps to patients. And at the time, it was incredible was really early in health tech. And I got to see kind of the insides of how these products are built, how they're distributed, how people begin to use them, how physicians and healthcare providers think about technology, especially when I was brand new, not like today when we all have technology everywhere. And for me, that was such an incredible moment. But I often found myself as the one of the only women in the room, often the only person of color, and definitely the youngest. And it was a moment where I was doing this work. And even though I had a great career I was I was making changes. I got to see kind of the contrast between what I did by day and when I went home at night to the Bronx. And for me, it was it was really apparent that it didn't matter how much money I made. It didn't matter how much I knew who I was, what we were creating in terms of healthcare and in terms of innovation didn't really represent communities like mine, like the South Bronx or like others across the country that are similar. And so it was in those moments where I said, Hey, you know, like, what would it look like in health tech, to incorporate an equity lens to think about people, right, and to highlight the voices of folks who are often and have often been historically silenced. And use technology as a supplement, and as a way to kind of look at healthcare with an equity lens as well.
Paul Zelizer 05:37
Beautiful and if I understand correctly, you’ve at least you've cared about these issues, like as long as you've been alive, but there was a particular moment, around building equity in health care. There was a there's a moment in your family with your mom, where something happened, and you're like, oh, wow, services and health care? What's out there isn't serving people that look like us very well. Is that fair to say? Yeah, definitely. And I think, you know, I think there were like, three pivotal moments in my life that really brought this home. So I think, the first definitely use with my mom. So I mentioned that I worked in pharma and healthcare, and I worked on oncology on cancer drugs. And with my mom, while I had this great job, and I had access to the best clinicians in the world, my mom was diagnosed with cancer. And, again, that like really brought home for me that Oh, wow, like you work in this. And I thought I was able, I thought I was okay, you know, we're gonna handle this cancer diagnosis. And we're going to do what we need to do. But there were a few things at play. One, my mom also worked in health care, and she worked for a health insurance provider. And at the time, and this was many years ago, but at the time, she had just switched jobs from one health insurance company that she'd been working with to another. And there you there was a 90 day probationary period, right, so you'd get your job and have to wait 90 days before your insurance, your benefits kick in. And because she was diagnosed with cancer within those 90 days, her own company, which is was also a health insurance company,
Ivelyse Andino 07:20
wouldn't qualify her to be to have coverage because she had a pre existing condition. Yeah. And it was obviously you can imagine, right? So, so horrible to be in that place. But more than that, for both my mom and I, to be really well equipped to know the healthcare system. Prior to my mom, even working in healthcare, she had been an EMT, she had been a dialysis tech, like, we both really knew this system really well. And we're really forced to navigate it alone. And to kind of come up against really a system, right, when we talk about health equity, I think those are big words. But really, there are systems that place things and operations and procedures and policies and people to at play that make it really difficult for people, especially black, brown, indigenous immigrant LGBTQ folks to access health care and care in a way that's, you know, easy, or in this case, equitable. So I think, to answer about, you know, the vulnerability, so I think that was the first moment that really got me to see what was kind of wrong. And then the second was when I was pregnant with my son, so at this time, I'd been working in health tech, I'd been working in innovation, I had a really great job, I had great benefits, I hadn't been through this experience with my mom. So I already knew how to speak up and ask questions. But there was a moment when I was pregnant, and I was telling my physician that I was really worried about my son not turning and and he had been, he had been breached. And there were a few moments in there where I was explaining my concerns, and I wasn't taken seriously. And I wasn't heard. And I you know, I always say people, you know your body better than anyone else. And there was a very clear moment where I just was not listened to and ended up having an emergency c section. And that for me was another moment where I said, Oh my like, I I know this but what happens when you're not heard what happens when, when when you know, the people who are meant to take care of you the systems that are meant to take care of you don't listen to you. And the last moment and I'll make this brief was after I gave birth to my son, my best friend also became pregnant. And in her case, she actually, she had been on Medicaid while she was pregnant. And the stark contrast in terms of the quality of her visits her prenatal visits compared to mine. She didn't even met her doctor for weeks at a time. There was one appointment that I went with her and I just said, Hey, you know, we want to know what's going to happen. What are you looking for? In this visit? In this ultrasound, what are you looking for what is important, you know, you're making a baby. So like lungs and to be developed and eyeballs and hoping you other things. So we were just really curious at this milestone, what do we want to see? And they didn't answer us and wouldn't answer us and couldn't tell us and she said, Oh, everything's fine. And it was that moment that I said, this can't be fair, you know, I thought I had a bad experience. But compared to what my friend had been experiencing, that I was witnessing, and that I was there trying to advocate for, and I couldn't see, it was just horrific to watch. It was that moment. And maybe the the combination of those moments really, that led me to start radical health and to really begin to imagine a place where, where this doesn't have to happen again.
Paul Zelizer 10:44
I'm so sorry, that happened to you and your loved ones, and I believe you. So is it fair to say you, you could have stayed the course and health tech, and that's a burgeoning field, and you could have made a lot of money and rode that wave. But you chose to say, oh, wow, people I care about aren't being served? Well, I want to do something about that. And it was those very poignant experiences, etc. Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna change horses here. And I'm going to go on the horse to think about equity and access and more in the realm of activism, not letting go of what you learned or your skill set in the health tech world. But more, we need to work on some of the structural issues, not just build another app or get that app in people's hands, because it's going to come through a system that isn't equal and isn't going to serve people like care communities that I care a lot about, is it something like that?
Ivelyse Andino 11:46
Yeah, I think you know, you're, you're nailing it right? I am very well, I made a lot of money back then. And would have been a lot more comfortable. staying right in the industry that I was in. But yeah, you're exactly right. When I started radical health, I thought, if I'm honest, I thought I would start another tech company and say, okay, you know, we're gonna do this, and we're gonna have the lens. And really quickly, I had to reckon with the idea of like, I couldn't just build another app and another, you know, get something else in the hands of people. But what different? Like, How different would that be? Would it be any different? And so in dead, I did, you know, in my spare time, I'm a community organizer, and I'm really rooted in building community. So I took my organizing skills, I took what I learned in the tech space, and I started chatting with folks. I often say we bought radical health on my kitchen table, where I just invited anyone who would listen or who would even hear me over and would talk with folks and ask, you know, what, what do you like about? But what does health mean to you? What do you like about health? What don't you like? What do you like about health care, and started having these conversations, and it was there where it was really kind of pivotal to say that, yeah, we're not building another app. This isn't just a, we know best. And we're going to tell you what you need. We're building with, and building in community, and really bringing people together to have these meaningful conversations that, you know, even today, in the middle of a pandemic, we don't have the conversations about, you know, what are you afraid of? Or what are you concerned about? Or, you know, what do you love. And so, it really, to your point, kind of, I had to take the best of all of my experiences, and then do that, like on the ground with people. And I'm delighted to say that we still do that today.
Paul Zelizer 13:41
I did 15 years, my original training was in community mental health. And a lot of that was working more in the community organizing side. And so many of my mentors were the native women, TiVo in the united and the grandmothers in little communities of northern New Mexico, where maybe there's a church and maybe there's a school and you're lucky if you have a health clinic with one doctor who comes two days a week, I mean, really small communities that weren't formally resourced very well, but the informal networks of how you get things done in communities that are oftentimes left out. People have been thinking about that for a long time. And I just want to honor everybody who's learned from those communities and say, thank you to my mentors and honor your mentors who helped you come into this world.
Ivelyse Andino 14:35
Yeah, definitely. I think I often say and I stand on the shoulders, right of the many people, especially the black women, who have fought, you know, labored to get me where I am today. And you know, it's it's my job right to, to carry and to break down doors so that it's a lot easier to you know, but I definitely want to honor all the folks whose names No, and those who don't know, we've done this work.
Paul Zelizer 15:04
I could feel him on the podcast, I just wanted to say hi to them. And thanks to you as well. But also like, yeah, there's some folks that this conversation literally wouldn't be happening. And sometimes you were like, Well, how do you build something and community gets tossed around online in such a casual way, oh, you just need to build a community. And that'll ensure the success of your impact. That's a skill set. And people have been thinking about that for generations. And so I'm so glad you made that transition and want to get into the details of that now. But thank you to everybody. And thank you for you to making a bit of a upstream choice, it would have been easier not to make the choice you made, and you made it anyway. And radical health wouldn't be here, if you didn't say, thank you. So talk to us a little bit about radical. So now we know why you started it. Like, what is it? Yeah, so the,
Ivelyse Andino 16:02
the best way to think about what we do at radical health is we just really know that healthcare is complicated. It is difficult. And unfortunately, again, I use the pandemic overviews, just like, you know, what's an NRA, a rapid COVID test, like it is just complicated. And so at radical health, we make it really easy for people to come together to have meaningful conversations around their health, and to ask questions to know kind of what questions to ask before, during or after a visit. So we bring people together online to have what we call our restorative health circles. So actually using the indigenous practice of circles, to have conversations with peers, and a radical health facilitator, where we can talk to everything from you know, on topics such as pregnancy, or COVID, or finding how to find the right physician. And in those conversations, it's really peers coming together. And really just like a safe space to talk to learn from one another. We're not providing any medical advice. And then we have a chat app that you can chat with us. And really, we say it's, you know, like you're feisty on tea in your pocket, but really know what questions to ask, especially as it pertains to like navigating the healthcare system. So in some cases, right, if you don't speak a language, you can ask for a translator, that will translate when you're in an emergency room or seeing a doctor. In other cases, it might be you know, what do I do if I can't get an appointment, then we can help you, you know, ask to be put on a waitlist. So really, at radical health, we're here to build community kind of in kind of what we're talking earlier really builds really meaningful community, and then help people kind of access the healthcare system in a way that's a little easier and a little simpler, and again, equitable.
Paul Zelizer 18:01
Beautiful. Earlier, I believe you said that you and your mom felt alone, you really had to navigate big things and complicated decisions in systems that have a little inequality baked into them. And it sounds like you've really thought a lot about Okay, well, we're not doctors, per se, we're not going to say Take this medication, or here's the you know, medical advice for your situation. But we're going to help support people who oftentimes might not even know what to ask or might feel uncertain about, can I even say, Hey, what's up with this? Am I even allowed to say that? Yes, you can say that. And let's give you some data. So you can at least ask informed questions, so you can then make informed decisions somewhere to say,
Ivelyse Andino 18:51
definitely, and yeah, and so you know, very critically, we're not doing clinical advice. But I often say, right, when I'm going to have a movie night, on a Friday night, I spend hours on Netflix, watching the previews thinking about it, what am I going to watch? For most of us, right, we might have a physical or checkup, or maybe it's an emergency visit? And I don't know how many of us I'll say myself included, I definitely don't do much prep work. I don't know what to ask. And yeah, and really, it can be scary. It can be intimidating. It's very lonely. And so we just want to help folks. Yeah, be prepared. And maybe it's during the visit, or maybe it's even afterwards. But we really want to help people be prepared and know kind of how you do for a movie night.
Paul Zelizer 19:34
So might be helpful to do at least as much research for your major medical information and visits as a Netflix binge night is that what you're saying? You might want to consider maybe could be helpful possibly could be an option. So what does that look like? Oh, and let me just back up. And say, I love I'm actually sent my girlfriend is also an activist social worker. And I said to her link to your restorative circles for health equity. I found that video and I want to ask you about that. But I love that you're bringing indigenous technologies around. restorative justice is what many of our listeners that's the term may be most familiar with restorative circles for health equity, I just love that. Such a valuable service. So if somebody wasn't familiar with like, Okay, this makes sense in theory. So you get this chat up, like do you meet in person that what, how does this work?
Ivelyse Andino 20:41
Yeah. So right now, you know, the way that folks actually access radical health we work specifically with, we'll call them providers, but maybe it's a hospital, maybe it's a clinic. And they make radical health, we work together to make radical health available to their end users. So we these are community members, me this is through, you know, population health departments. But we do work really closely with providers on that way. The other way that we work with folks are actually through employers. So we know that, you know, if you've ever gotten a job, and you get that big old packet, when you first sign up your first day of work, and it's like the huge packet, here's your health insurance, may the force be with you. Good luck with that. Um, and so what we're finding is the other way that you work with folks are actually through employers who are like, hey, maybe, you know, that packet probably isn't the most helpful, but also, you know, pizza parties and massages are wonderful for employee well being. But what does it look like to actually jump in and support employees and their health and their actual health in meaningful ways? such as coming together? Maybe it's a chat, maybe it's, you know, people returning back to work from maternity or paternity leave? Or maybe it's just, you know, how do we find how do we understand that that big old packet, but and then having support for both of those cases, having support through our chat app where you can chat in Texas, you know, at any time and as you go through out your health. And so, today, that's how people and that's kind of how it works, and how people can access radical health. We're working so hard to also make this available to everyone. So hopefully, next year, we'll be back here and have some new announcements where then everyone can access and download our stuff, and be able to connect with radical health. But yeah, for right now, we're kind of how you work with us.
Paul Zelizer 22:44
One of the reasons people listen to the show is because want to understand both how do we have positive impact? And also how do we create thriving social enterprises an impact businesses that can pay the bills and sustain the people that work for them. And so when we come back on here a little bit more about like, what some of your funding streams are, and how this all works in terms of a social entrepreneur lens? Before we do that, just want to take a quick break, and hear a word from our sponsor? Do you have a business that's about making the world a better place, and you want it to grow both in terms of your impact, helping more people and your income? If so, I'd like to talk to you about podcasting for a minute. Here's why. When I was doing the research about podcasting, I found three data points that were really, really interesting. The first one is that podcast listeners are what are called early adaptors. In other words, if you have a new idea that's out of the box, they're willing to try it really quickly, much faster than the average population. podcast listeners are also what are called natural leaders. We're the kind of people that people in our networks, whether it's at work, or church or home, they say, you seem to know a lot about blank, I'm facing this situation, what would you do if you were in my shoes? And number three, podcast listeners make more money, not just a little bit more, but quite a bit more money? So put those three things together. And do you see where I'm going, listeners, your impact business in front of these kind of people? Hmm, this is interesting. If you'd like to learn how to leverage podcasting to grow your impact business, where printers has a podcast success team, where we'll walk through every decision you're trying to make about how to leverage podcasting, whether you want to do it as a guest, or as a host or both. You can find out more at a were printers.com forward slash podcast dash success. And thank you to everybody in the podcast success team who sponsors this podcast. So I believe like I said in the second part of the show, we like to put on our social entrepreneurs. classes and get a little more granular. Okay is a great idea. our listeners, we've talked about health inequalities and all sorts of inequality, we believe you, we hear you doing fabulous work, we get to that a top level of why it's important. Now help us understand a little bit how this works as an enterprise. So you have this chat app, and you have ways that you kind of built the brand where people say, Okay, this is where you can go, if you've not historically been somebody who the medical system is done a good job of serving, this is the organization for you, they got this chat up, but like help us understand like, how do you get paid to do this work.
Ivelyse Andino 25:39
So this was one of the biggest challenges that I experienced in starting radical health.
Paul Zelizer 25:46
You and every other social entrepreneur. Not everybody, but a large majority. So that's part of why we do this show. So we can learn from each other. But I just want to say thank you for saying that. And this is a really common common theme that a lot of us are great at the impact, but how to make it work as an enterprise can be a struggle.
Ivelyse Andino 26:05
Exactly. And I think I, you know, add in there, as a, you know, I tried to raise funding, I'll say that I started early on trying to raise some venture capital funding. But again, as an afro Latina founder, we know that black women in at least an investment, right, receive less than half of percent of all venture funding. And I didn't know that when I started, I thought, you know, I had a really good idea, I have a really good impact, people will be behind this, they'll believe in me, we can get started. And that was so far from my reality. And so in order to get started, what I had to do really quickly was figure out a way to bootstrap, right? So to get this going, get the social impact off the ground, and make revenue. And so the strategy that I picked really early on was just we're gonna find some clients and find clients who will pay for this. And I know that this sounds really, you know, maybe easier said than done. But that was what we did. So I went out every single day, right? chatting with folks say, this is our idea. Do you have any budget? What can we do? What would it look like to have these kinds of health conversations? And we're able to set up I guess, you know, what, I think it was like a business model that really allowed for us to take in clients, have them hire us to do this work. And while we did that begin to prove out the impact and so begin to prove out, right, why this was so important. And then we've we've done that for the last five years. And then you know, now it's a different kind of story. Because we know, people can see the value. But really early on, it was about trying to like just make sure we were sustainable, make sure that we had some revenue in and then doing the education work, to get people to, to realize and to understand how important the work that we're doing is
Paul Zelizer 27:58
so important. If you're going to give people you don't have to mention names, but like an example of the kinds of clients are saying, Oh, this is interesting. Yeah. Well, hi, are you anything you can share about? Yes,
Ivelyse Andino 28:10
so the the tip for me getting started, and I would offer this, I say this to every person, every company that I consult with him that I advise, I was trying to get into healthcare, right, that's where I want it to be. What I found really early on where that was that, you know, actually, healthcare wasn't going to be the most receptive, right. So it's kind of like trying to walk in through the front door, like they're just not going to open that door. So what I did was I found side doors, and the equivalent was other sectors that were not in healthcare, but needed or could see the value in health care. So I actually started in education. And so worked with a government, a school district will say, where they were really interested in making sure that their community was understood health and social determinants of health. And so that was in a much easier sell to be one of the only health tech health equity companies going to an education, you know, area and saying, Hey, this is what we're offering. We also did that with higher education. So we went to universities and and basically went all around the healthcare system. So our little bit a lot of our clients early on, were actually not in health care. And then like I said, you know, once we built out and show the impact, then went to health care, and we're able, then there was a little bit easier for them to open that front door, and they could see the impact that we had done across different sectors.
Paul Zelizer 29:37
So to our listeners who are still in that process, they have a very impact focused idea and they're clear what the impact is. And I think so many of our listeners, because we're working with marginalized communities or innovative approaches or things that structural inequality sometimes certain people don't actually want Structural inequality to change. Yeah, I know, you know that listeners, but some people might not any suggestion to somebody who's still in that process of like, yeah, it seems like I should be able to go in the front door, but it's not opening yet. What would you say to somebody who's experiencing that? Yeah. So
Ivelyse Andino 30:17
one of the one of my mentors gave me this advice early on, and had said, hey, what you're doing, and especially if this is something that has incredible impact that you believe it, the people who you're working with, believe it right, you can you can see the impact. What might be true, is that you're not wrong, you're just early. And in many ways, that's a very hard pill to swallow sometimes, right? Because it's, if you know, it's right, and everyone else knows it's right. And that, you know, you know that you can do something, it's hard to be to be right and early and not have people believe in you. So one of the things that I would offer, and the advice that I like to give is, if you can, and you have the ability and the privilege to stay the course, stay the course. You're not wrong, you're just early. And then the other thing that I you know, can offer is this, this is this is, this is hard, it's hard, and it's hard to do it and to do it in a sustainable way, especially if you don't have support or structures. You know, I didn't I didn't come I don't have like, wealthy uncle's I didn't I didn't have any of that.
Paul Zelizer 31:35
Yeah, just do a round of friends and family funding, right? Like, listen to the Yes, if you have that great, but there's certain assumptions there, right?
Ivelyse Andino 31:44
Yeah, yeah. And so I didn't have any of that I had to use my own money there, I didn't get paid for the first two years of starting radical health took a really long time to do that. And yet, I still had a level of privilege that I could go full time and get after it. But I do think that there's also a piece of, you know, I mean, every every company is different, but like listening, right. And if you have one of the things that I've learned more recently is like, if you have people behind you, if you have the community behind you, that speaks volumes, so you might not have the revenue, you might not have the clients, right. But if you have community, that is also another kind of measure that you can use. If you don't have community, but you have maybe the clients and the revenues and other measures, I think it's figuring out and identifying what your value is, and that there are multiple ways of measuring value. That's not just the impact, I think that's maybe the distinction that I make value and impact are very different. And the impact will always be there and will always speak for itself. And you kind of that's what drives you. But identifying what your values are, and then kind of leading with that can help.
Paul Zelizer 33:04
Lovely you just said in particular just want to go back, at least to what you said about you're not wrong, you're just early. For those of you who've been around for a while, listen to a bunch of episodes, you know about my spiritual highlighter, like imagine a big orange highlighter. If we wrote that on a board, I would circle that. And so many of our listeners are in those scenarios, and are feeling like what's wrong with me like people are beating a path to my door. And this is a really important issue and why am I struggling so much. And if I'm really on point with something that's really important, and has been neglected for so long, why is so hard. And so I just wanted to highlight that and it's almost like, can feel a collective sigh in our if we were all in the same room, I have at least I think quite a few people in the room would sigh and there might be a tear or two in the room or maybe a lot of tears. So thank you for that medicine. And listeners, I hope you took that in. You're not wrong. You're tester. So five years in, and now you have clients and new proven value. And can you talk a little bit about both from like, like what's true right here right now? The scale of the company now, like what is like in terms of engaging clients now? What are you doing to demonstrate or you know, document impact? Like what's what's radical health look like five years in?
Ivelyse Andino 34:37
Yeah. So you know, it's interesting, because folks love to quantify and this goes back to my earlier point, let's quantify, right? How do you measure success? And so we have some of the metrics, right? We have a bunch of incredible clients. We have great press features. You know, we're just
Paul Zelizer 34:55
in Forbes, congratulations. What a great article. By the way. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, you know, I wasn't trying to name drop, but I'll do it for you. I'm totally shameless.
Ivelyse Andino 35:09
Yeah, we, you know, we, we have the measurements, right. But I think what's also really important for us is, we still have impact, right. And, you know, when we think about who we're working with, so we've spent, you know, over 3000 hours in conversations with people, whether that's People to People conversations kind of in circle or on our chat, we spent over 3000 hours with people having conversations, of which 98% of those identify as black, Latino, immigrant, LGBTQ, undocumented, formerly incarcerated. And these are meaningful conversations around their health, right and navigating a system. And more than that 98% of folks would recommend us to a family or friend. And I think that those are the key, those are the key metrics that like I look at to say, like, we're doing this and we're having an impact. And then you know, where we are. So next year, where we're rolling out, so we've been building, you know, really kind of heads down this year, we have a lot more to go for the latter half of this year. But you know, we are growing, we plan to make our platform and our work available across a few more states this year. And then next year, get ready to roll out so that everyone can have access to radical health and, and more people can experience this, you know, that the ability to talk with someone to share with a trusted group of folks, and know what questions and kind of have have have have someone who's got your back. And so you're not getting out this alone.
Paul Zelizer 36:54
One of the dominant cultural narratives is it's so hard to engage people from marginalized communities. Is that fair to say? At least we hear it a lot. And, you know, and aware of foreigners, we hear a lot. It's so hard to do this. And what I think I hear you saying is 98% of the people you're engaging are folks from marginalized communities. Is that fair to say?
Ivelyse Andino 37:13
That is 100 fair and accurate? And I think, you know, I think that's what makes radical health unique is that in many spaces, especially in healthcare, the things that we see kind of on the market, the apps, maybe that you can download, are focused, right on a specific segment. Right? So maybe these are folks who have iPhones, we look at the socio economic demographics, it's like, you know, iPhones are expensive, I have one and they're expensive. Right? But like, who has iPhones? Who can download an app? Who knows who has the space and the time? And what we find is that in healthcare, especially, a lot of the things that are provided really don't center communities that have been historically silenced. And I think that for us, and what is unique about radical health is that that is exactly Not only is that like, who where we want to have impact, but that is who we build with. That is who we hire, that is who we center. And really, we're creating the future of healthcare that is inclusive,
Paul Zelizer 38:16
such important work that y'all do. And I love blowing up myths like that. Like, it's almost like there must be something that I don't agree with this, but the dominant, there must be something wrong with these communities, because we keep trying, and it doesn't go anywhere. And here you are saying no, there's nothing wrong with these communities. Why don't you rethink what you're doing? I'm putting words in your mouth. But you know, something to that effect, like, No, there's nothing wrong with these communities, you're just going about it in a way that's not going to work. And why don't you talk to folks who are actually trusted and center, folks who you've not, you know, given any reason for them to try Matter of fact, there's a lot of reason for them not to trust you. They're being smart not to trust you and and we've developed these relationships. And rather than continue with the like, well, we just can't seem to figure it out. Why don't you talk to some folks where there's already trust in place and bring them on your team? Yeah,
Ivelyse Andino 39:12
I think that that's exactly it. So I yeah, to answer, you're not putting words in my mouth. It isn't difficult. But actually, the easiest part of my job is meeting people building community and doing it and doing it across state lines doing it, you know, across communities, connecting with communities that people will label as hard to reach or difficult or whatever horrific words are used. The easiest thing, in fact, it's actually getting people. The harder part is getting people to see just how valuable resistant how beautiful how brilliant these communities are, and that like, you know, we need to invest in them and get this word going. That's probably a little bit harder.
Paul Zelizer 39:51
So you may have already answered this question, but I just want to see if there's anything we haven't yet heard about in terms of where radical health is done. I heard you saying we're building, you know this, we're making the services available first to more states. And then you said to everyone, I don't know if that means everyone in the world or everyone in the US. So just some some nuance there. And is there anything about where you're going that you haven't yet told us about?
Ivelyse Andino 40:17
Yeah. So we are, we are plans we are, we're actually we're raising some funding where, you know, starting now to bring on some investors and continue to grow the investment in radical health so that we can make this available. Our plans are to make radical health available. So that everyone, can everyone in the US at least can access this across 50 states want to like set expectation, that probably won't happen for a little bit of time, because we got to build it
Paul Zelizer 40:48
at least six months.
Ivelyse Andino 40:51
At least, but then we're also right, expanding our clients. Right. So for folks, right, like I mentioned earlier, providers and employers, we want to, we're expanding our client base, we're growing our team. And when we think about, you know, the longer term where we're going, we really want to be the trusted place for community for a conversation and for navigation and health.
Paul Zelizer 41:17
How many people are on your team now in radical health, and as this grows, where do you see it growing as a team?
Ivelyse Andino 41:26
Oh, my gosh, the team, if I were to quantifies we have, we have the team that's like our, you know, staff team. And then we have the crew, which is all of the we have, like over 15 facilitators who are on host these conversations, we have a crew of like lawyers and all the behind the scenes. But it is really, it's it's wonderful. I mean, I was alone, doing radical health for the longest time, it actually was about two years ago when I actually had like, employees on. And, you know, our goal is, you know, next year, and we're bringing on two new folks by the end of this year. But next year, we hope to bring on a whole new crew and really want to have a full on, you know, we want to we want to, I always say this, like it's not about being bigger, right? Our goal isn't necessarily to grow and have like massive hundreds of people, but really, to grow deeper and to grow intentionally. So our goal, really, when I think about how we how we add or how we expand it really is to be intentional and to be to go deep and to build deep again, with our community, with our partners. And with all the folks you know, who are listening here, too, I think that's the best part like we get to collab and grow together.
Paul Zelizer 42:45
Beautiful. I literally just this morning did an interview with the fabulous impact leader named Marcia josey, who wrote a book called dare to scale and the episode title is dare to scale a woman's perspective, and exactly what you're just talking about, like looking for depth and values, alignment and impact and letting those lead rather than the sort of dominant narrative. Usually white tech leaders, male, who like hockey stick growth is the only way to grow hockey stick growth being like super steep growth curve and, you know, orders of magnitude bigger every year than the last year. And that's the quote right way. And if you're not doing that you're doing it wrong, obviously, is that is a fabulous conversation. And the words that came out of your mouth could easily come into that conversation as well. So I'll put a link in the show notes. But I'm a huge fan of listening, letting doubt and values lead to what scale is wanted, rather than having some. Yeah, somebody else says narrative running your business, talk about a great way to burn yourself out and you know, not really be on point in terms of your values, that's a great way to do it is let somebody else's narrative run your business.
Ivelyse Andino 44:04
Right. And I think that that's something right. When we think about impact. When we think about creating an impact, it's really easy to adjust. And so yeah, to align with something that we look at, you know, all the other companies not saying that they aren't good companies, right. But the companies that maybe aren't impact first. Those are the metrics that they use. And so I think that there is something about for challenging, right, the world with our businesses, and you know, and then wanting to make a difference, then we also need to challenge the metrics as well, because those don't show the depth, the sustainability, the values, the future. And so I think it's, you know, across the board, right, where do we have impact and I think we can do that in multiple ways.
Paul Zelizer 44:53
So a vulnerable question in terms of like, the first couple of years a startup like this, like you said, you didn't get paid, right? I saw many impact leaders put in a lot of sweat equity upfront life now five years in, you're getting some traction, people are seeing, wow, they're actually getting great results with communities. And maybe many traditional businesses don't know how to engage and involve in what they're doing. And so you're getting recognition and paying clients life for either at least in the team, like, Is there more balance? Are you feeling sort of a holistic well being or is it still like a lot, a lot, a lot of work, and maybe other parts of the life are harder to attend to like it was during startup?
Ivelyse Andino 45:44
Oh, my, if anyone thinks that, if you get clients, it'll be easier. Or if you get employees, it'll be easier. Or if you raise funding, it'll be easier. I'm here to unfortunately, break the news that that is not the case. I often say, for anyone who's had you know, children or nieces or nephews, or even if you've babysat or been around little people, there's something about like the infant stage where they just they just cry, and they eat all the time. And they're, it's a lot of work, you haven't slept and you're stressed. But then as they grow, they start doing things. And then there's a moment where you're like, you want the baby like crawl or walk, you're like, you know, you put a lot of energy, it's like taking those first steps. And my kid now is six. And so I wanted him to walk so bad. And then we did what they don't tell you that the babies like they, they walk, and then they run and they fall, you got to watch them. And so it's actually more work than when they just needed to be fed, and you know, go to sleep. And in many ways, startup life is similar. So while we are five years old, some things are easier, right? So where I'm not up at night, wondering like, you know, can we pay a bill or, you know, where is this coming from? Actually, we have some resources we can we can hire we have I have some support, there's still a lot that you're working with, it's a lot more pressure, we have people, we have clients, we have community members that, you know, we have a responsibility to hiring and building out a team is not easy. There are a lot of ups and downs that come with that, that there really isn't a guidebook to the other pieces, you know, keeping, keeping the vision going, keeping the pieces aligned, so that we're not losing track of our end goal, and not just chasing, you know, a check or an investor, but really being focused and intentional. That's really hard. And then you know, as, as a person who lives in the community, where I grew up, who is also a mom, a friend, I mean, all the roles that I play in so many more roles, like, it is hard to balance it all. It's hard to be a black Latina woman in the world, in this world, especially, it's really hard to, to kind of, you know, have to exist with so many intersections. And I'm grateful that one there spaces like this, to talk about it and name it. I think there's something about, you know, naming those challenges and being able to sit with that. And it's tough, and there's joy. And both of those are true with the exact same time.
Paul Zelizer 48:39
What would you say I've at least five years in, and you're, you know, you have a sense of this lifestyle. It's not easy, in some ways, but it's very impactful and values aligned and others to the person you five years ago to the person who's in some comfortable from a financial perspective, like more kind of in the box, like, Oh, I'm gonna be a health tech entrepreneur. And that pays well and then my life is good. And okay, and then someday I die. And okay, cool. Versus like jumping ship. And during startup in all the ups and downs that you've articulated so well. And all that it means to create something more innovative and swimming against the mainstream narrative of inequality. And marginalization is just that's the way it is. And I hear you through your actions saying, Oh, hell, no, no, no, it's not. We're gonna do something about that. And it's been a tremendous amount of work to do it. And thank you for doing it. What would you say to somebody who's kind of straddling that like this nice, comfortable life?
49:44
Boy,
Paul Zelizer 49:45
that's looking kind of attractive. And there's something that I know if I rolled up my sleeves, I could really make a difference. And, boy, the world would be a better place if somebody did it. And I actually could, and they're there. They're on the fence about
Ivelyse Andino 50:01
Yeah, so the answer I think everybody wants me to say is just do it. But I think the real answer is, you have to take care of you first. Right? And I think, especially, I'll speak for myself, as someone who sees injustice, who's lived through injustice, who wants to change things, it's easy to get caught up in that and say, Okay, we're just gonna jump and do it. But what was important for me when I was at my job considering starting radical health, was that I was taken care of. And so that means that if you are considering it, and you know that you can do it, if it's a purpose and a calling, it will be there. But make sure you you are okay. So that you have whether that's savings a place to live, like, whatever it is that you however you define what you need, I would say, you know, put your own oxygen mask on first. In my case, you know, I had to keep my job I couldn't when I had this idea, I couldn't quit right away to start radical. I had to wait. That was hard. That was so hard to do. But what it allowed me to do was when it was time to start radical health, right, I had the space to do it. I also had a little bit more know how I also had a few more, you know, connections. So if you were in that place where you're like, Oh, I might, I don't know, I'd say one, you could always start building right right where you are, you don't have to quit your job and make a grand gesture to start, you can start right here right now. Even if it is just taking care of yourself. It's kind of like before you run a marathon, you gotta like train a little bit. But But do what you need to do to be well, and then go for it.
Paul Zelizer 51:40
You're talking to an ultra runner. So yeah. Good to train a little bit before you sign up for the 100 mile or folks. That's recommended, right? Yeah. And like, I haven't run 100 miles, I have run 50k. Right. So 33 miles with many 1000s of vertical feet here in the Rockies. But like this weekend, literally a bike spent this weekend with a bunch of trail running buddies in Silverton Colorado area, we recruiting a race, right. And like, as I'm looking at doing bigger things, getting behind the scenes and like talking to somebody, hey, you know, coming in literally mile 64 and 100 mile race, what's going on for them? And what's how's that different than running half that distance? Right, like doing the research and having experiences like, okay, I had never thought about that, you know, just being of service and getting some information deciding do I want to do that or not? So very simple example from another domain. But when he said marathon, I'm like, yep, literally do your homework, and as many ways, creative ways as you can before you sign up for the 100 mile.
Ivelyse Andino 52:47
Totally, no, you need sneakers, right, you probably need to stop. So you just
Paul Zelizer 52:51
clean socks. For right, some hot broth. And like, Hi, you know, it's cold, even in the suburbs of Colorado at above 12,000 feet. And so hot broth and clean socks are like gold.
Ivelyse Andino 53:09
And I also add in there too, I mean, just I just started running. And I woke up one day and said I'm gonna run a 5k. And I did and I did not train. But I think the other thing too, like, also, if you don't have the background or the admin, you also can do it. But you're gonna have to get really smart really fast. And so I just want to also offer for folks who are like, I think I can do it, do it too. If you feel like you're ready, you'll know just jump
Paul Zelizer 53:34
sign up for the 5k. And, you know, maybe wait a little bit for the 100 miles. Yeah, definitely agree with that. Nice. Well, I really, I could hang out and talk to you all day. And that's not fair to you. And it wouldn't be fair to our audience, if we'll put a link to radical health in the app, and all the things we talked about here, in terms of the great work you're doing. So that's a given. If there was something you were hoping to get to an interview about this incredibly important topic, and we haven't gotten to it yet. Or there's something you want to leave our listeners with, as we start to say goodbye. What would that be?
Ivelyse Andino 54:14
You know, I think the one thing I want to leave listeners with especially listeners who care. And Paul, I know your folks care is that we need you and more than like, the world needs you like we also need one another. So really just want to offer and invite folks that you know whether you're just getting started or you've been at it for a while, some of the greatest value that I've found has been in partnering and collaborating with the folks alongside me and who are also in this journey. So I leave that as like a last thought but also an invitation to how can we all support and love and build with one another.
Paul Zelizer 54:54
Building an ecosystem or joining an ecosystem and being part of it like nature doesn't do in isolation, and the smart entrepreneurs I know don't either. So thank you for that incredible advice. I have at least it's been fabulous to have you on the show today. Thank you for your important work and sharing your wisdom. Just been a pleasure to have you here.
Ivelyse Andino 55:17
Likewise, it's been a joy to spend time with you and your listeners. Thank you so much for having me.
Paul Zelizer 55:23
So that's all the time we have for today, listeners, before we go, just one request or invitation I might suggest we love listener suggested topics and guests. So if you have an idea, please go to the aware printers website, look at our contact page. And we have three simple lenses that we're like looking through to see if it's a good fit, we tell you right there, right market tested as one of them right? In other words, a certain degree of scale, that it's not just a theory. So if you've got an idea, go there. Take a look. And please, we'd love to hear your ideas. So for now, I just want to say thank you so much for listening. Please take really good care in these intense times. And thank you for all the positive impact that you’re having in our world.