211 | Beyond Tired: From Burnout to Wholeheartedness with Paul Zelizer
On the pod this week, Awarepreneurs CEO and founder Paul Zelizer shares some thoughts on burnout and how to make your way through it back to a wholehearted and vital relationship with your business. Specifically, Paul goes into the 4 areas that social entrepreneurs who are experiencing some degree of burnout can explore to identify exactly what's leading to your exhaustion and what you can do to change it.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Beyond Tired: From Social Entrepreneur Burnout to Wholeheartedness with Paul Zelizer
Transcript from Otter.ai.
SPEAKERS
Paul Zelizer
Paul Zelizer 00:01
Hi, this is Paul Zelizer, and welcome to another episode of The Awarepreneurs podcast. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things, conscious business, social impact, and awareness practices. Once a month, we now do a special solo episode where I go into a topic in depth. And that's what we have today. Before we get into the topic, and we unpack a little bit about it, I have a request and a piece of news. The request is if you could go over to iTunes or whatever app you're listening to this show on and do a rating and a review, it helps tremendously. Thank you so much for considering. And the piece of news is that we will be taking a two week break the second part of July. So I can get some rest and work on a new website. I'll be telling you about some things coming up. But basically, it's time for a summer break. So we'll pick back up at the beginning of August.
So our topic today is Beyond Tired: From Social Entrepreneur Burnout to Wholeheartedness. For those of you who don't know me, my name is Paul Zelizer. And I'm the founder of Awarepreneurs and I'm a leading social entrepreneur coach who works with people who are looking to harness the power of business for good to make the world a better place. And to live a good quality life as an entrepreneur. I want to tell you a story. When I was coming up on 40 years old, I had been doing a career in community mental health and community organizing. I was in the process of transitioning from social worker to social entrepreneur. I loved that work. It was beautiful work. But it was also challenging in some ways that were really starting to lead to burnout - beyond tiredness, our topic today. I was really suffering from compassion fatigue. And there were a number of those things. One is, I was working in a nonprofit, I was the executive director and working within the systems that were really not set up to help the people that we wanted to help. And then I wanted to help. So there's a lot of structural inequalities and structural roadblocks. I wasn't getting very well paid for my time. So I was working a lot of hours, I was a relatively new father. And putting so much into this work was, you know, depleting me and also hard on my family. And eventually, it was one of the contributing factors to a divorce. My daughter was like five, six years old as I was trying to make this transition. Having been in community work, I, especially in a place like northern New Mexico, where I have lived since 1993. I didn't have a ton of money in the bank. And it was a very, very challenging time in my life, where I was really exhausted. And I knew that some things needed to change. In this time where I was, you know, finishing up that career and starting to make my way into the world of social entrepreneurship and conscious business. Somebody introduced me to the work of David White, who I knew a little bit about, but in particular, he has the CD set called Midlife and the Great Unknown. And this topic is up for me, because I'm reading research about how as we emerge from the pandemic, at least in some places, and people are thinking about, you know, what's the next iteration of life going to be, both in terms of your work, and just life in general. And also, I have several clients, quite a few clients and colleagues, who have been really struggling with feelings of exhaustion and tired and malaise, and a general sense of like, wow, there's a way in which what I'm doing isn't working. And I shared that story to let you know, this is not some foreign thing. I've had other experiences of burnout, most recently, about five years ago, pretty significant four or five years ago, pretty significant hitting the wall, like the way I'm doing my life and the way I'm doing my business aren't working and something needs to change and I don't know how to get there. In that David Wade CD set, which I highly recommend, I personally listened to it, I think over 100 times certain dozens, I don't know how many times my last Social Work gig and by involved to drive about 45 minutes each way and I still listen to that another, you know, recordings to kind of use it as a learning time that hour and a half in the car going up to the office where I did that last Social Work gig. I really tried to use it as a time I love learning and study and building my muscles, both, you know, inside my mindset and how I was thinking about this new phase of my life, as well as some of the exterior skills I needed was marketing or entrepreneurs skills, and so many different things happened in that car in that time, right. And this is one of the things I listened to many, many times in that CDs that there's a conversation between David white, and a mentor is at a time when David White was going through a very significant time of feeling burnout and questioning how he was living and also feeling like he just couldn't continue on. And one of the things his mentor said to him is this. You know that the antidote to exhaustion is not necessarily rest. And David said, the antidote to exhaustion is not necessarily rest. What is it and it's his Brother David Stendal, I believe is his name. And he said, the antidote to exhaustion is wholeheartedness. So in this episode, as I'm reflecting back and sharing with you things that I've learned in going through several social entrepreneur burnout experiences and finding my way back to more centered, wholehearted and more vital life, I can report that after these several experiences of burnout today, I feel really aligned. And I'm feeling more alive than I have, in a very, very long time, feeling nurtured and taken care of, and like my life is on track, even though the world around me is very turbulent. Sure there's some things in the collective that I very much want to be different. I feel good about how I'm living and what I'm doing. But I'm certainly seeing clients and colleagues, feeling their lives shaken up by feelings of tiredness and burnout, and maliase So we're gonna explore kind of four buckets for social entrepreneur burnout. In this episode, if you are feeling that sense of like, not just a little tired, like, I need a nap, or I need a weekend, or maybe a week vacation, but like, beyond tired, in yourselves and in your bones, I remember when I was in the phase of my life of being unable to continue in the career that I had enjoyed, and had really dedicated myself to for 15 years. And now there was getting cleared and clear, I needed to, you know, a change that went beyond a week or two vacation, this was, this was beyond that level of tiredness, and a kind of tiredness. I was saying, Paul, it was my body and my heart and my spirit, St. Paul, there's a way in which we're living, that is profoundly not working anymore. And it's time to take a look at some of these things. So in that spirit, I want to offer four places to four levels, four lenses to look, if you're feeling that kind of, wow, this is not just, I need a bit of time off, and I need to rest a little bit kind of tired. But that sense of like that compassion, fatigue, and the way you're setting up your life is asking for change. Here's four places that I want to encourage you to look and some inquiries that might help you find your way into the next iteration of your work. And back to a sense of vitality, and wholeheartedness. So I'm going to tell you what those four places are those four lenses, and then want to share a little bit about what I've learned and how I work with clients. The first one, I'm going to call it the foundations of self care. Those things that we do in a regular way things like rest and nutrition and exercise and time in nature, and a sense of community etc. Number two is our values. And I know for me that when I have hit those periods of very significant beyond, I just need a vacation kind of exhaustion and burnout. There were some things going on on a values level that we're asking for my attention. And as I re opened the conversation about what my values are now, and what that means for me going forward in my work and in my life. Some things really started to change. Number three, boundaries and systems. One of the reasons I've had a tendency to kind of hit those places of very significant burnout. Is I'm a giver. And sometimes I over give lots of times, truly honest with you, I over give and had to do some work on boundaries and systems and up leveling them multiple times. So we're going to talk a little bit about that. And then the last one is as an entrepreneur, what are our offers? And what are the pricing for those offers? One of the reasons I burned out so significantly at that time, and I was coming up on 40 is, I was doing work that people really appreciated. It was running a men's center, but it was really difficult to get paid. So I was working for when you did all the math, a very low hourly rate compared to what I was putting in and the skill set required and the level of complexity, we were doing batterers intervention and complicated situations where families, you know, well being were at stake, in some cases, you know, some very significant life threatening behavior, that's not the kind of work you want to get paid. Very low for this was complicated, nuanced work with safety issues. Every day I went to work. And, you know, I have gotten better over the years of paying attention to things like, what are my OPERS? And what am I getting paid to do the work that I'm doing. So those are the four layers or lenses, and let's go into them a little bit each now. So the first layer, I want to invite you into an exploration, if you've been dealing with some of these feelings, or maybe a lot of these feelings of tiredness and exhaustion and malaise and burnout, is the foundations of self care. I want to offer you a couple of kind of lens, it's just an inquiry, there's no right answer here. But how are you doing around certainty. And if you're doing well, in the foundations of self care, well, that might indicate that there's something going on in one of these other layers. If the foundations of self care aren't in place, then you know, taking a look at offers and pricing, well, it might want some attention. But if you're not sleeping well, or your nutrition is really off, it's hard to tell if something's you know, off around boundaries, and, and you know, or pricing around your offers, if you're just not sleeping enough, or eating food that isn't nurturing your body in a really deep way. So this is the foundation. So the suggestion I'd have is start here. And the first inquiry in this foundations of self care level is rest. Sleep is incredibly important. It's important terms of our mind, we know that a mind that's not getting its needed amount of sleep each night is not functioning at an optimal level, as well as our bodies, our bodies recover. I'm an athlete, pretty significant trail runner, those of you who listen to this podcast know that about me, if you're not sleeping well. It's really hard to recover, mentally, spiritually, emotionally, physically, etc. So just an inquiry as and if you're not honestly, sure. And just start tracking a little bit how're my doing? When it comes to sleep? Am I sleeping a good amount? Is my sleep? Regular? Am I waking up a lot? When I wake up in the morning, just you know, how do I feel if I've had eight hours of sleep, or six hours of sleep, or 10 hours of sleep, whatever it is, to start noticing what's happening with your sleep. And, again, not that there's a right or wrong answer, but starting to pay attention there. And if you're not sleeping well, that's something to notice and pay attention to. And particularly with some of these other foundations, as you start to notice, oh, there's something off here. Maybe I need to pay a little more attention to my pre bed time, you know, self care and my hygiene around what do I do after you know, eight or nine o'clock at night, spending too much screen time on my watching or reading things that really activate me etc, etc. The second level is nutrition. I'm a lifelong athlete, and nutrition matters tremendously. And if we're feeling off, particularly for those of us who are getting older as we record this, I'm 53 years old, right? One of the reasons that I can do these wild trail runs of you know, a couple of weekends ago, nine of us did a 27 mile trail run in the mountains with 5500 vertical feet, you know, and I ran one of the best times I've ever done for a marathon plus level run in the marathon in the mountains at 53 years old. to really live a good quality life requires attention to what we're putting into our body in the form of nutrition, just like grass to notice what's been happening there. And I know at other times in my life If things get busy, I will sometimes the quality of my nutrition, the attention to my nutrition will go down, eat out more, I need to be making faster meals instead of optimizing for quality nutrition, etc, etc. Just what have you been putting into your mouth? And how is it making you feel? And has that changed over time? Or is there maybe as we're aging, a lot of us, myself included, need a little more attention to, you know, what we're eating and how that resources us for the physical, mental, spiritual, you know, the work things that we want to accomplish in the world. A third level of foundational self care for me is exercise. And there's more and more research again, particularly as we're aging, am I asking you to go become a trail runner run marathon trail runs in the mountains, absolutely not. But some level of exercise, particularly for those of us who live a modern lifestyle who work in an office and you know, sit or at a standing desk for a good portion of the day. That's not how our body was designed. And the antidote of exercise, whatever it is, I have a rowing machine, and some inner strength training equipment right here in my house, right, as well as trail running and hiking, etc, etc. Whatever it is walking, do you like to ride your bike? Do you go for hikes? How have you been doing in the realm of exercise, and when we get busy, and when we get tired, oftentimes things like exercise can start to drop. So just coming to an inquiry, try to take the shame out of what I should be doing. Just notice, here's what I have been doing for the past month, six months year? And how is that contributing to what's going on in the holistic experience in my life right now. Another piece, at least for me, and many of my colleagues is nature. For me, nature is both medicine, and my church or my temple. And when I have regular time in nature, I'm a different human, then if I haven't been spending quality time in nature, again, it doesn't have to be like these. I happen to enjoy very extended times in nature, and that feeds me, I'm getting ready. In the next, you know, five or six days, I'll be headed off to Catalina Island, which is a wilderness area off the coast of Los Angeles, doing a trail running trip of four days of like full time in nature, unplugged, not working ocean and sleeping on the beach and being in nature, with a very light pack. And you know, really treating it like a pilgrimage in nature. Obviously, that's a pretty big block of time. And not everybody can do that. But are you going for a walk? Are you spending time in nature in a way that fits you and your life? And has that changed over the years? And is your body asking for more is your psyche is your spirit asking for more than what's been happening of late. And then the last layer, the fifth layer, when it comes to foundations of self care, what's happening in your community, many of us who are doing innovative work are either working as solos or in small teams, micro businesses, and, you know, it's not like we go to an office with, you know, hundreds or 1000s of people, a lot of us are working, you know, independently and doing work that might not be as common to, you know, the average person and, and maybe we're not having as much social support built into our work life or maybe we're working really hard. And so, personal support is something that can kind of slip through I know it has for me just kind of get less attention during times when work is something that's you know, very high on my list of priorities. And at times my attention to community and connections and relationships has slipped, and then I find myself feeling isolated and disconnected and a sense of malaise, like something from I don't really know what it is. I and most humans are social creature and to feel most wholehearted and alive. We most of us want, you know, a sense of like belonging and feeling connected. So those are the five letter there could certainly be more but these are some things to kind of just look at what's happening in your life around breast nutrition, exercise, nature and community and I intend started there, because of those self care foundations are in place. And you're, you know, you're like, I'm doing pretty well on these and I'm still feeling okay, then we want to take a look at some of these other things. If these five things, you're noticing a couple of them are like really needing attention, then what I would suggest is really try to start there, that doesn't mean, don't pay attention to boundaries, or don't pay attend, let's not even look at your pricing and your offers. But if you're really not sleeping, well are you really like not eating that? Well, let's try to start to move the needle and some of these foundational self care practices. And that can help at least resource us for some of the other layers that we're going to be looking at. And going to next. So do these inquiries about the foundations of the self care in your life, and see what you notice, and what might want attention on this level, or just like high five, you're doing really good there. And what's contributing to burnout likely is coming from some of these other layers. Okay, cool. keep taking good care of yourself on the foundational level. And then let's move on and talk about some of these other layers. So the second place, I want to invite you to put some attention, if you're dealing with burnout, exhaustion, and tiredness, sometimes we're taking really good care, I've had this experience, I'm doing the exercise I'm eating well, I'm meditating, I'm hanging out with people, I'm sleeping pretty good. And, you know, just feeling like, there's stuff to like, go to work and work with clients, or watch that new project, or write that new thing, or create that new program or launch that new offer, just not there. What's going on? For me, once we start kind of moving beyond some of the purely physical things, for me, the next place to look is your values. And as we grow, our values change, or at least our relationship to those values can change. And for me, certainly what was happening is I was closing in on 40, I still care deeply about community and social change. But the way I was relating to the things that were important to my life, like I said, when I was a young single man didn't have a kid, how much money I made, was like not wasn't high on my list of priorities. And as I was aging, I had a daughter and you know, just not that I was living extravagantly. But But I was really feeling frustrated with not having enough to, you know, I was taking care of the basic needs. But becoming a family man certainly was showing me that I hadn't been wise about taking care of myself on a financial level. And that was starting to really grow as both a pain point and something that needed more attention. So that would be a simple example. So as you're coming into honest assessment of where you are right now, come back, and maybe it's time to re explore what are your values? And what have they been up until now. And as anything changed, sometimes the values themselves have changed, right? Like if just like a tree, you know, a tree, if it doesn't keep growing, it dies, it's gonna start dying. Well, humans, for me are the same way. So I don't want to assume that somebody's values are exact same values that they were 10 years ago. So the values themselves what's important to you now, and I'm a huge, huge, huge fan of making decisions in our lives, both business decisions, and personal decisions, from a real place of clarity around our values. For me, that includes dating for me, that includes business for me, that includes where I invest my time in my community, I try to as much as possible in my whole life, with my core values, as the, you know, guideposts or are they the North Star for me of the choices I'm making. So if I'm feeling really exhausted, or I'm taking good care of myself on a physical level, oftentimes that says to me, there's a way in which I'm not in sync with my own value. So come back to your core values. For me, my core values personally, are slightly different than my core values. For my business. There's a lot of overlap, but there's certainly differences. So taking a look at those two layers of what are your core values and revisiting them? For me, those core values, they're not 27,000 of them. There's a few of them in my personal life. There's three. For aware printers. There's five, right but we're talking about just a couple of core values that if you really kind of boil it down to the essence that can help You get clear about how to make decisions. And if you've been investing your time and energy and resources in places that are not synced up with your core values, at least if you're anything like me, that contributes to a sense of depletion, when you start to come back to your core values, things come alive for and they feel more vital. So take a look at your core values, what they've been get honest with yourself, if anything's changed about the core values themselves, and then come back and take a look at what some of the things you're doing the day to day investment of your time be opened up and take a look at a week's calendar. How much of that is feeling highly aligned, this client, this new project, the podcast you do the book you're working on the new product you're developing? How much is that, honestly representative of your core values? And if the answer is not that much, in at least significant parts of it, that's going to contribute to that feeling of like, I'm really not enjoying going to work, I'm feeling less than fully vital. It's oftentimes our nervous system saying, there's a way in which we're not living our core values. Take a look at what you're doing through a week in a month. And if it's aligned, there's a really good chance, you're going to feel wholehearted. If it's less aligned, or not at all lined. That's where we start to get into a place where like our body and our spirit is then you're putting all this time and energy dude into something that's not really why you're here on planet Earth. And then you're wondering why you're not feeling super excited about getting out of bed in the morning, right kind of makes up that second level, take a look at your alignment, or lack thereof on a values basis. And it's not something you can necessarily snap your fingers and change overnight. But what I find with my nervous system is my sense of spirit. If I start entering into an honest dialogue and to start admitting, well, here's some places where my core values aren't really showing up in my business the way I would really like that I start getting into more honest dialogue and start looking at how I can do something about that. Move more into alignment, even just acknowledging it and start the conversation starts to bring more wholeheartedness more vitality into my life. So starting with foundations of self care, next step, big picture, coming into an honest reevaluation of your core values. If those things on those two levels are pretty good, like wow, yeah, again, sleeping pretty well. Eating pretty well. Exercising pretty well, time in nature, great. values, great. Like, yeah, it's really lined up. Okay, cool. Let's take a look at the next layer. If all those things are lined up, and you're still tired, you're still feeling exhausted, you're still feeling burned out. Then there's two other layers I want to encourage you to take a look at. The first one is boundaries and systems. And let me give you an example for me of a place I was seeing where I was contributing to my own sense of tiredness and exhaustion and burnout. I love human beings, I like to joke, but it's true. I'm an introvert who loves human. And I very much have enjoyed and have found success growing my business in a multitude of ways from paying clients to podcast guests through the process of networking. I love networking. For many years when I was you know, coming online, I didn't have much of a social entrepreneur network, I had a local kind of community around the issues, we were working on arc and I was very connected that way. But when I was getting online, I didn't know that many people. And so mentor mind made a suggestion every Friday, put a block of time in your calendar. So once a week, at least, you're meeting with a new person who in some way kind of overlaps or has some adjacent interests and some similar values to what you're doing. I did that for a year and still pretty regularly do meet with people. At a certain point, I was finding myself you know, I'm a I'm a giver. And I was finding myself, you know, network with people and people would circle back around and Paul didn't know anybody who can do this, build me a website or design a book cover good opportunities to be in a podcast about this topic about this thing and watching. I if I'm honest, I found myself giving more than I was receiving, at least with some significant, like a large significant percentage of people in my network, right 80% of the people on my network. Were asking The more for me than I was asking for. And that was, you know, so as I started to get better at self care, and you know, paying attention to values and starting to like move, the next iteration of my impact career in a way that felt more aligned, I had this behavior, and it served me at the beginning of, you know, doing a lot of networking. But as I was kind of growing, and I started to have a full time business, and I was, you know, running a community and this podcast and becoming better known and connected to literally 1000s of people, the a significant number of whom were asking more for me, then there was, you know, less mutuality, then is ideal for who I am and how I'm wired. That's an example that as time went on, I needed to work on that. And as I got more intentional about, I can't help every single person that reaches out, even though as the helper and as a person who wants others to succeed, I want to win, I tried to, I get really, really tired, I get really depleted, and that contributes to even when the work itself is values align, it's, it's a behavior that doesn't serve me, and it's something that I needed to work on. So if you've got the foundations of self care, they're going pretty well, you're really attentive to your values. And things feel like you're, you know, you're making decisions to invest your time in a business where and to do projects and offer services and products in that business that are values align, this is a good time to start looking at your systems and your boundaries, particularly as it involves other people, whether those are contractors or employees, people in your network, what are you giving to clients, if you're, you know, I have a tendency to over to give with clients for a long time. And, and again, it's because I want the best for the people that I'm serving. And sometimes I have given more than was helpful, either to my clients or certainly to myself. So taking a look at those boundaries and systems and honest assessment of what can you really do with the people around you that are cognizant of all the different things that are that are on your plate? And how can you design things? I'm pretty fierce about for instance, what comes in in terms of emails, and my LinkedIn box. LinkedIn is the social media these days where I spend the most time, if somebody is constantly sliding into my LinkedIn box with things that really aren't valuable, and they're making asks or trying to get me to buy something or meet with them. I just connect or even block them. Somebody's sending me emails, I asked them to stop, or we'll send them to the spam filter, right? That's it, I've learned to have stronger boundaries, and find myself feel less depleted, and can do the things I do, for instance, use LinkedIn and really enjoy it, and connect with world class social entrepreneurs. without feeling like it's a drag, because I go into LinkedIn. And my direct message box is just a bunch of people asking me for something with no attention to meet reality whatsoever. That doesn't happen to me anymore, because I put certain things into place. So taking a look at your boundaries, and your systems, and are there places that you that are asking for little more robust attention there. And this is one of the things for me, that's my growing edge and a lot of work in the past two years about more boundaries and more systems. Part of the reason I feel really good when I go to work these days and really vital. Lastly, I want to talk about your offers and your pricing. The last layer for today's conversation anyway, to help you come back to wholeheartedness is to really come to a fresh assessment of your offers your products or services, and the pricing for those offers. As I've matured as an entrepreneur, I can see and I know in the social entrepreneur space, one of the things we don't talk a lot about is something called product market fit. In other words, what we're offering and what the marketplace wants when we get that pretty right. Other words are services and our products, people actually want them and they're willing to pay a good amount for them that allows us to live a good quality life, then, at least for me, I like going to work. That's fun. I like helping people and making the world a better place. And getting paid. I'm not trying to like, private jet plane, kind of, you know, drive a super expensive sports car. That's not who I am, I want to live a good quality of life. And I want to help people. And when I'm offering things that people really value, it's not that difficult to sell them because it's a, it's a good fit, then like, I'd like going to work, it's fun. A lot of the times I go to work, somebody's like, Oh, I'm really thinking of joining the aware printers podcast success team, or I'm thinking of hiring you, as a coach for your one on one coaching services, because I really think you could help me like when that's happening regularly, that's exciting. And those things are priced such that when somebody comes into it, I feel like my time is really well compensated. And as I shared before, earlier, that wasn't the case, I was doing some things and spending some time and investing in ways of helping people where it wasn't feeling mutual. And that was part of why I was feeling depleted. And it was kind of on me that I set it up that way, or I agreed to those forms of relationship or my time, as you know, doing these like incredibly complicated, highly volatile services when I was doing things like batterers intervention or taking part in child welfare conversations and not getting paid very well to do it. That's, for me, that's incredibly draining. It's like, Oh, my God, like if I don't bring my a game, somebody could really I mean, not like figuratively get her I mean, literally get hurt, or even killed. Domestic Violence work is very, very known for how volatile it is, and how at times dangerous it can be. And to not get paid very well to do something that was, you know, I'm a human being, it was hard on my sense of purpose and sense of self esteem and sense of value. And again, some of that was on me, and some of that is cultural. Anyway, enough said about that. So to come to the very specific conversations about what are you offering right now? And how does that fit in terms of what your ideal client values and what they're willing to pay for it. And if it turns out that there's, you're doing complicated work, you know, work that's taking you years to build the muscles to get ready to do it, and people aren't willing to pay very much for it. And you're feeling like, this is not contributing to my well being. And I'm putting all this out not getting a lot back, well, then that might be something that wants a little bit of care. And some reevaluation of, how can you use those same skill sets and that knowledge base that you spent so many years building? And is there a different way to present it or a slightly different audience, or maybe a very significant audience to present it to in such a way that it can be valued, and you can get well paid for the time invested. And you can have that sense of both meaning, but also that sense of just for me, when a new client comes on board, or somebody really makes progress, and they're thrilled by the work we're doing and really moving the needle on their goals, and happy to pay me a rate that allows me to live well without having to overwork and bite my fingernails, or is there going to be enough to get through the month, I don't want to live that way
38:51
anymore.
Paul Zelizer 38:52
I really don't want to live that way anymore. So that's that fourth layer of paying attention to what you're offering, and how it's valued to the people you're offering it to and is the pricing of what you're offering is it really honestly going to allow you to live in a way that you can have spaciousness and ears and a sense of just baseline comfort, that your needs are taken care of. They're taken care of, in terms of what's expected from you in terms of how much you're working and what you're giving, during the times that you're working, there's a good exchange there, that exchange is honestly off. Even if those other things are really, you know, dialed in, you're paying really good attention to self carry your values you really, you know, this is really super aligned with your values. You've got good boundaries, you're not overworking you're being mindful. You've got good system. and place your offers such that people are willing to, you know, pay for it in such a way that allows you to live with a sense of grace and ease, then there's some work to do there, and what kind of fine tuning is wanted or needed. So again, those four layers are the foundations of self care. Come take a look at your values again, Come, let's explore what's going on in the realm of boundaries and systems. And lastly, let's take a look at your offers and your pricing. And my experiences, both in the times that I was beyond tired and dealing with burnout. And also Now like I said, I'm dealing with quite a few clients who are finding themselves, you know, needing to have an exploration here, I find that these four inquiries can really make a significant difference and help you kind of find, at least Where are the places that want some more attention? And where are you doing really well and kind of high five and good job on that. And bring your attention to the places that need a little more work. If you're finding that you could use some help in unpacking what's going on for you, in terms of your social enterprise, and places where maybe you're doing a great job of taking care of yourself and both personally and as a social entrepreneur. But then those places where it's not quite working for you and you're not quite sure what to do about it. Maybe your systems are less than, you know, less robust than what would serve you or your offers and your pricing. Like it's just not working in the product market fit that I'm talking about like this, it's really hard to sell what you're offering. So you're working too hard, and that's frustrating, and that's contributing to a sense of burnout. Then I offer one on one coaching for social entrepreneurs. That's at my coaching website, Paul Zelizer calm Zhi, Li Zhi er, there'll be a link in the show notes. And this is work that I just feel incredibly honored to do. been doing it for 14 years now. Like I have some sense of what can be helpful to somebody who's in this reevaluation process about finding more effective, and just processes and systems and offers that can help sync up these different areas and allow you to live a good quality life, get paid well for what you're doing, and not having to overwork. While still really feeling like you're moving the needle on making the world a better place. You can find out more about my one on one coaching at Paul zelizer.com. link in the show notes. And thank you so much for this. And before we go again, just a reminder, I will be taking a two week break. And also a reminder, we'd love listeners suggested guests and topics. If you have an idea for something you think be helpful to talk about on the podcast, or guests that you think would be just fabulous, a really good fit. Go to a where printers go to our contact page. And on there are the three criteria we use. We try to be really transparent, I tell you right there in the contact page. Here's how we that a potential guests or potential topic, if you take a look at those, and you think you got a great idea, please fill out the form. We'd love to hear your thoughts. So for now, I just want to say thank you so much for listening. Please take really good care and these intense times. And thank you for all the positive impact that you're working towards in our work.